HANNAH: Hello, hello.
EMMA: Welcome to Red Hot Take, I’m Emma Chanen. I’m Managing Editor here at the Herald and today in the studio I will be joined by Hannah Offer, who is a Features Editor at the Herald. Hannah just got acquainted with the microphone, which was exciting for all of us. Our creative intro music of the week is “Twitterflated” by Podington Bear. So thank you so much to Podington Bear and that’s probably enough of “Twitterflated.”
HANNAH, we just watched this week’s episode of The Challenge: Invasion. First, just any thoughts you have on the episode?
HANNAH: I definitely don’t believe that Nicole is in love with Laurel. I think that Laurel is fucking crazy, and Cory is very annoying, and those are, I guess, my takeaways.
EMMA: Okay, just give me your rapid-fire hot take. Laurel and the peanut butter?
HANNAH: Yeah. I mean, first of all, I think more ridiculous was the fact that, so Nicole loves peanut butter, and her—should I give some background?
EMMA: Okay, yeah, Nicole’s obsessed with peanut butter and one night—
HANNAH: She had a fucking massive jar of peanut butter.
EMMA: Five gallons.
HANNAH: Which I don’t understand, because when they showed the peanut butter, when Shane was like “Nicole, there’s peanut butter,” it was a normal-sized peanut butter jar.
EMMA: She probably brought it with her.
HANNAH: Like a huge thing of peanut butter.
EMMA: That she eats with a ladle. It’s disgusting. Like I love peanut butter, but that’s disgusting. And one night, someone said to Laurel, who’s drunk, “This is Nicole’s peanut butter. Hide it in the bushes.” And she did and she forgot about it and Nicole was very upset about it.
HANNAH: And two weeks later, you know, they’re in Thailand, it’s probably 80 degrees at least every day, humid, really gross—
EMMA: There are bugs everywhere. They found a centipede in the food.
HANNAH: Yeah they found a centipede in the food, and her fucking peanut butter jar has been in the bushes for two weeks, and she immediately eats it.
EMMA: And it’s covered in mold.
HANNAH: And then Laurel’s trying to hide up the fact that she—
EMMA: And CT. Okay this moves us to CT who, in general, this season has been incredible to watch. Funny, calm, a really good competitor, it’s just insane to have watched his evolution. I think he’s great this season.
Deryl moving the cinderblocks in the challenge! I wrote this down because it seemed like a huge deal but I’m glad we get to talk about this. Deryl is unstoppable.
HANNAH: Yeah, and he’s just so soft-spoken and, like—
EMMA: He’s the ideal Challenger. He’s the champion. He’s the champion of all Champions.
HANNAH: And CT right now is just trying to fuck with all the young kids. Deryl just doesn’t even care.
EMMA: He has almost no screen time at all.
HANNAH: Yeah. I’m sure he just works out all day, and they don’t even show him. Like he mediates.
EMMA: Yeah, just sits there silently watching.
I thought the challenge was great. They were neck and neck. The champions should be winning? I’m sort of confused that they keep choking like this.
HANNAH: But honestly, in that challenge, I think being small was an advantage. Because they were trying to squeeze through doors. And you’re quick when you’re small.
EMMA: That’s true.
HANNAH: Even though Deryl was like crazy throwing those cinder blocks, they probably weren’t that heavy.
EMMA: An amazing elimination. Camilo just pulled of the biggest upset in Challenge history, maybe.
HANNAH: I sort of thought that that was gonna—like I said as we were watching it, the way that Laurel did her rope was very—
EMMA: It was simple to undo.
HANNAH: Because it’s really spread apart.
EMMA: Yeah, and you also kind of need to knot yourself up if it’s gonna be hard for them to undo.
HANNAH: Yeah, that’s why if I were in that challenge I would literally just put bunches together and knot them like fifty fucking times, because that’s so annoying. I think a good thing to do, with the exception of a few outliers, is—
EMMA: Is to knot it in itself in the middle
HANNAH: Or, like, on one side
EMMA: Stand in the middle and crawl over and back and through your own rope a bunch
HANNAH: I agree
EMMA: Camilo even got a hug from TJ which is huge.
EMMA: We have more Red Hot Take coming up where we discuss The Leftovers seasons 1 and 2, and even head all the way back to Lost for a little bit. But be sure to check out the rest of the Herald’s audio issue, too. There’s a ton of good stuff in Voices, in Culture, but for now, more Red Hot Take.
HANNAH: So what do you think of The Leftovers these days?
EMMA: Oh my god, what a wild transition. So I finished season 1, I watched all of it in a week. I had issues with the first season, but I expected to.
HANNAH: Tell me about them.
EMMA: I thought it was such a downer show. First of all, I think Justin Theroux has the potential to be incredibly charming, and they made absolutely the right call in casting him as the leading man, but they gave him nothing to do except be angry and say “fuck” a lot and be kind of awkward with his daughter and his daughter’s friend and be kind of wild with his dad.
HANNAH: What’s the deal with the daughter and the daughter’s friend? I forget.
EMMA: I either missed it or they never explain it and expect you to figure it out.
HANNAH: Does he hook up with her?
EMMA: No. My presumption is that she lost both of her parents and so she lives with them, essentially. He didn’t hook up with her. I mean it’s left ambiguous but I say no. One night when he was having one of those black-out episodes, he came home and she bandaged up his hand, and then later Jill asks her, “Did you fuck my dad?” and she’s like “Yeah Jill, I fucked your dad,” like “fuck you.”
HANNAH: And then they having a falling out.
EMMA: Yeah, and then she leaves. I forget the friend’s name.
HANNAH: What happened at the end of the season?
EMMA: So the end of season 1: the Guilty Remnant buys those stupid recreations of the bodies of the departed, and—also every time they say the departed I think of Mark Wahlberg in those slipper shoes shooting that guy—anyway, these recreations of the departed, but they are so heinous looking and they go and position them back in people’s’ homes.
HANNAH: Oh yeah, they do that in Nora’s house.
EMMA: Yeah, it’s actually horrifying. Fuck the Guilty Remnant, I hate them. They were the worst part of the first season, I don’t care about them at all. I hate cults.
HANNAH: Wait, have there been three seasons so far or two?
EMMA: No, the third season just started Sunday. Yeah, the third and final season just started Sunday.
HANNAH: Oh, okay, I need to start it then because I’m caught up.
EMMA: Okay, well I’ll try to finish season two in a week.
HANNAH: So have you started season two?
EMMA: I haven’t yet, but I will.
HANNAH: But, so, in season 2 they move.
EMMA: I know, I know that. So the end of season 1 is, all the people go and literally set fire to the Guilty Remnant’s headquarters. And then Jill, who was visiting her mom kind of, was in there.
HANNAH: Yeah, and he carries her out.
EMMA: He carries her out. And I’m pretty sure the wish he made when he encountered Wayne dying in the bathroom, is that either he’s not crazy (which doesn’t seem likely given the promo for the second season because he’s still seeing the leader of the Guilty Remnant who killed herself), or being—
HANNAH: Okay, that’s what I wanted to know had happened.
EMMA: Oh yeah, that happens in the first season. He has one of those black-out episodes and kidnaps her.
HANNAH: Fuck, yeah, that’s crazy.
EMMA: So my second guess for what his wish was is that he repairs his relationship with her daughter.
HANNAH: Yeah, the second season gets crazy, too, because the brother is involved.
EMMA: I think the brother is one of the worst actors on the show. Truly talent-free.
HANNAH: Wait, is he in the first season, too?
EMMA: Yeah, he’s in the first season because he’s protecting Christine. I’ve always thought that Damon Lindelof had some weird thing about pregnant women, and this series just confirms it. But Christine, who is pregnant with Wayne’s baby, has the baby and she leaves him with it, and he leaves it on his dad’s doorstep, and then Nora, who was going to leave, finds it and gets rid of the letter that she wrote. And then they move to Texas.
HANNAH: Yeah it’s crazy.
EMMA: I’m excited. I also love Regina King, so I’m jazzed about starting it.
HANNAH: Wait, who’s Regina King? She was in A Cinderella Story?
EMMA: Indeed she was. And Legally Blonde 2.
HANNAH: The second season is wild. I can’t even. What does the third season trailer look like? Have you even watched it?
EMMA: I haven’t watched it because I don’t want any spoilers.
HANNAH: I’m excited for the end of Pretty Little Liars.
EMMA: I don’t watch Pretty Little Liars.
HANNAH: Who watches Pretty Little Liars? I have two interesting things about TV shows lately, which have nothing to do with the two that we’ve been talking about.
EMMA: Okay, hit me.
HANNAH: Number one: I didn’t have anything to watch Sunday night.
EMMA: Yeah, which is devastating.
HANNAH: So I just watched the most recent episode of Grey’s Anatomy. I haven’t watched Grey’s Anatomy in years, but I do remember that there was a plane crash that killed Lexie and then Mark died of heartbreak, and—
EMMA: Did he really? Oh my god.
HANNAH: Yeah, and one of the lesbians, Arizona, lost her leg. It was this huge thing. And in the last episode, they’ve so fully run out of things to do that there was another episode on a plane with horrible turbulence. It almost crashed and they had to do all these emergency things on this place. This is when you know that a show should not be on anymore.
EMMA: Yeah, they just have to keep rehashing the same old plots. I think what should happen with Grey’s Anatomy is that they should take a cue from old children’s TV shows and do a crossover episode, but like a crossover rest-of-the-series where the plane crashes on an island and then the island has all sorts of things—they’re polar bears, a mysterious group called The Others—and then we’ve come full circle and we’re just doing Lost again, which I would really be fine with.
HANNAH: They never explained the polar bear.
EMMA: They didn’t.
HANNAH: And that was in the pilot!
EMMA: They also never explained why Walt can mind-control weird birds flying into glass walls and why was Walt important? There are so many unexplained mysteries, but I totally buy into the J.J. Abrams mystery box idea. I don’t think you need to reveal everything, you know. And anyone who is upset with the series finale of Lost should also feel that way, because obviously they had to wrap something up. They had to give us an answer of some sort, and people weren’t happy with the answer they got. I personally was fine with the answer I got. I was like, yeah, good, solid show.
HANNAH: I don’t really remember Lost that well.
EMMA: Okay, ask me anything.
HANNAH: So, they’re all dead. That’s the end. They’re in this purgatory-like place.
EMMA: Yeah, essentially waiting to go to heaven or somewhere.
HANNAH: So my question is, how is it possible that there were actual dead bodies on the plane? And how is it possible that, I don’t know—also what was the smoke again?
EMMA: Okay, I don’t have the definitive answers on this. So any Lost super fans, please don’t @ me. I don’t really have the time to be super right about this. But I think that the people who died in the plane crash just had no unfinished business, had no things to resolve. Very basic people there to furnish flight 815—just immediately went to wherever they were going. And everyone else who survived had something. So that’s what I think about that. As for the black smoke, this gets a little hairy, and my memory is not perfect on this.
HANNAH: Because it’s John Locke’s brother? Did I just create that in my head?
EMMA: That’s not true. So it’s the Man in Black and Jacob, and they’re like light and dark. And I’m pretty sure that they’re supposed to be some kind of version of Jacob and Esau. Their mom’s Allison Janney. It’s like the duality of man.
HANNAH: I just don’t understand, also, how children would be born in that entire storyline of nobody-has-ever-been-born-on-this-island. Like how can you fucking have a baby in purgatory? That’s crazy.
EMMA: These are good questions, Hannah. So Claire obviously has Aaron, maybe because she is very pregnant and so it’s a full baby at that point and has some unresolved issues with the dad and needs a dad figure.
HANNAH: Which is Charlie?
EMMA: No, it’s not Charlie, because, first of all—another spoiler alert—Charlie dies. It’s momentarily Charlie, but Charlie is obviously an imperfect father figure. And then, it’s Jack and Kate who take Aaron, and Jack and Kate are obviously not great parent figures. This is deep dives with Emma and Hannah.
HANNAH: Did Kate and Jack—what was the deal with the Kate, Jack, Sawyer, and whatever that fucking bitch is?
EMMA: Oh my god. What was the deal with them?
HANNAH: At the end.
EMMA: Okay, we’re gonna call this a love rectangle. I personally was very happy that Sawyer and Juliet ended up together. The end of season 5 was very traumatic for me.
HANNAH: Oh yeah, that was crazy.
EMMA: And then the screen goes white, do you remember that? Because the bomb blows up, and it was a very I’ll-never-let-go moment and then of course he does, and she had to go. She did. She had to go, though. She was the sacrifice the island demanded. But it was a very sad moment. It all started obviously, season 1, you’re on an island, you’re of breeding age, you’re very attractive, there’s gonna be sexual tension. It all comes to a head in season 3 when Jack, Kate, and Sawyer all get kidnapped and you realize that it’s all this crazy plot stirred up by Ben Linus to get Jack to perform surgery on him for his spinal cancer or something. And Sawyer is brought in to motivate Kate. Kate is brought in to motivate Jack. So you’re like, okay, Jack has feelings for Kate who has feelings for Sawyer, and Jack has feelings about Kate having feelings for Sawyer, and they’re all gonna come out.
HANNAH: And Kate doesn’t have feelings for Jack at that point?
EMMA: Kate and Jack definitely have sex at some point. I think it’s after Kate and Sawyer have sex though, in the cage. Which was wild. Do you remember? Kate sneaks out of her cage and literally goes to have sex with Sawyer in his cage, and then they show Jack the footage of that. He’s really angry, so he’s doing like angry-surgery, and he nicks Ben’s artery to be like, “Run, I’ll sacrifice myself for you.” He hangs out with The Others for a while and that’s when he meets Juliet and then that’s where that comes in. It’s wild. This show was so good.
HANNAH: Okay, but Kate and Jack, in the end, are together?
EMMA: Well, Kate and Jack are together season 4 when they have the flashes sideways and when they kind of get off the island. And they’re together-together and raising Aaron. And then Jack loses it and does the whole, “We have to go back!” And they’re not together because he’s breaking down and she looks beautiful with her blowout and her makeup and is raising a child. He has a beard.
HANNAH: Wait so how does that happen? How do they get off the island? It was fake?
EMMA: No it was Keamy’s boat. Remember?
HANNAH: Wait, so they—what?
EMMA: Hannah, I really can’t spend the rest of this podcast rehashing Lost for you.
HANNAH: Yeah, we also need to go get dinner soon.
EMMA: We do need to go get dinner soon. I was gonna ask you one more thing—oh! I know what I was gonna tell you. You cannot complain about not having anything to watch on Sunday night this summer, because you have six weeks, no more than that, you have eight weeks—
HANNAH: To watch Lost?
EMMA: No, you have eight weeks to catch up on Game of Thrones.
HANNAH: Oh, fuck, I know.
EMMA: Hannah, you have to do it because you’re gonna love it.
HANNAH: I know!
EMMA: The thing is, you have great taste and you’re missing out.
HANNAH: Will you do it with me?
EMMA: I will do it with you. You’re just missing out on such an important cultural artifact. It’s like when everyone was telling me to watch Breaking Bad and I was just like “Oh man, I don’t have time…”
HANNAH: Well, I’m not watching Breaking Bad.
EMMA: Okay, no, I really can’t get into it either. It’s too late for me. But everyone, while it was on, was like, “You have to watch it!” or “Catch up!” Or same with Mad Men. I was like “I’m in high school, I’m trying to get into college, I don’t have time.” And now, one of my biggest regrets is not watching Breaking Bad or Mad Men.
HANNAH: Okay, well, we’ll watch it in my movie theater.
EMMA: You have a movie theater? Oh my god, Hannah, I’m so excited to be in L.A. with you this summer. Okay, that’s a great place to wrap up this episode.
EMMA: This has been Red Hot Take, episode 1, with Hannah Offer. Thank you for joining me. On Thursday, we’ll have—you’re very close to the mic—on Thursday we’ll have Tyler Hart and Tracy Chung in the studio to discuss Netflix’s Iron Fist and the upcoming Defender series. We look forward to discussing that on Red Hot Take.